WWE Evil debuted in late March before WrestleMania 38. A concept that came from the mind of WWE megastar John Cena, who serves as producer and narrator of the series, Evil explores the psychology of some of WWE's most high-profile villains, and how external and real-world factors shape these iconic wrestling antagonists. The series, which director Micah Brown initially feared could have fell victim to becoming a generic show, ultimately became one of the more unique WWE-focused shows in recent memory. Not only is it a fascinating concept, but it's driven by hard-hitting human stories and intelligent context to enhance and refresh the storytelling.
We here at SteelChair Magazine had the opportunity to sit and chat with WWE Evil director Micah Brown (read part one here), and so after a slight delay, we're happy to finally bring you part two of this exclusive chat. We talked about where Micah feels WWE and wrestling stands with the mainstream audience in 2022, future seasons of WWE Evil or other possible wrestling projects, his favourite moments from the show, and so much more. Enjoy, folks.
Have you had many people who are not wrestling fans watch and see how episodes land with them?
“To be honest with you, I try to stay out of that as much as I can. I just try to focus on the work. I don't want to focus on the critics and all of that stuff. So I know that it's been very, very well received, but I don't know who's been watching it. It could be all WWE fans. But, you know, my mum likes it… but it's my mum, so I have no idea (laughs). It's one of those things – I don't put a ton of stock into what other people's opinions are. Obviously, you have to make something that people like, and it feels good for somebody to be like, “That was awesome, I loved it.” But you also can't do art and have everyone's opinion like – people are critics, and that's what it is.
“If I get somebody that says they hated something or somebody that says they love it, I'm pretty even keel, like, I'm kind of like: “I feel good about it,” and I know what it was. I know what the assignment was, I know the limitations we had, the wins that we had, and so I can see it from a holistic view and put it in a certain bin of being like, “Okay, for what this was, I can feel good about this and these things.” So it helps me have some grounding when it comes to perspective.”
The episode of WWE Evil on Roman Reigns aired on USA Network on Monday at 11pm, following Raw. The episode ran 1 hour and 9 minutes.
631,000 viewers
P18-49: 0.18 rating (229,000)It ranked #18 among cable originals for the day in P18-49, according to Showbuzz.
— Brandon Thurston (@BrandonThurston) March 30, 2022
That's probably the healthiest approach (laughs).
“Yeah, you can go crazy if you just get on the Internet and look at trolls.”
I will just throw it out there, my two favourite episodes are Randy Orton's and The Miz's. I think it's the emotional aspect of those – they really hit home. The dark periods of Randy's life and The Miz finally getting the respect during that Talking Smack moment, you feel it.
“I think those are two of my favourites too. I like a lot of ones for different reasons, but those two interviews were really powerful. They were both very, very good. I think Randy understood the assignment so well, of like, doing the psychology stuff. You know, when he was getting into character…”
Oh my god.
“That was awesome. He understood the assignment, I loved that. And Mike [The Miz], he's just great on camera, man. He's just amazing on camera. He's got a crazy gift, so when you interview people like that, and they have such a charismatic personality, they can draw you in. It's like, all these guys can talk, but there are some people that can just draw you in, in a different way, and he's one of those guys.”
They also have the two best openings to any of the episodes. For Mike's, you have him criticizing the camera shot, where he just tells you that you've missed your shot (laughs). It's just like, “What an a**hole.” Then Randy's, when he's getting into character, that one – if you want a hook for an episode, my goodness. What was your reaction to that moment because I was shocked, but in a great way?
“It was kind of funny when it happened because he was just casually talking, and then he went into it, and I'm just sitting, probably three feet away from him. And he's doing that, looking at the camera, but I'm right there, I'm right next to the camera. I think everybody after he got done, just kind of paused for a minute and he just sat back and goes: “How was that? Was that weird?” And we were just like, “Oh my god, this is amazing.” You can see what a great performer he is because he makes you feel something. That's what I think is so cool about his story is that he transformed from this pretty boy, legacy guy into a legitimate wrestler, who clearly belongs, and it wasn't just given to him, you know, at a young age?”
When you see that, and especially considering you weren't really a fan coming in, what impact does that have on you? Because unlike actors or other forms of entertainment – these guys have to do that 300 days a year and to an incredibly high level – it's almost unparalleled.
“It is, and I think what's interesting for me is seeing that side of it because I didn't really think about it, you know, as an outsider, being that difficult. Until you think about, not only the physicality of it, that was kind of easy to get my head around. But if you're The Undertaker – I was talking to Mark [Calaway] for a while – you're playing The Undertaker for 300 days a year, and he's not like that. But that would wear on you after a while, and the way that he did things was like – don't really go out in public, don't do interviews, like he was very old school and he did not break character. He wasn't on Late Night. You know, he wasn't doing that stuff. He was The Undertaker. He was sneaking in and out of places because he was committed to that craft, and that commitment would be lonely. That commitment would be mentally draining. And so, that was one of the things that I gained a whole lot more respect for. Sasha Banks had a great quote. She said: “I didn't even see my real hair colour for a year.” That would be wild.”
I remember doing this interview and the room was silent. Everyone terrified lol https://t.co/3c3oe8Cr1J
— Micah Brown (@MicahBrownFilm) March 25, 2022
Because we've been talking about the emotional side of things – in the Roman Reigns episode, there is something everybody can relate to. The leukaemia thing, when he comes back and then he's still booed…
“Oh, that was a funny connection that I made that even WWE didn't really think about. When I was talking to Evan Mack, who made that connection as well, I was like, one of the things that I think is crazy is that this dude, in most sports arenas or any arena, it would be like, “Yeah, he's back!” But instead, they're like, “Yeah, we're glad you're alive, but boo!” (Laughs). I was like, one, that's hilarious dark humour from a filmmaking standpoint because it's so true. You're like, God, I cannot believe that it happened. But it was one of those things that I think was probably understood but never really like brought up, but I thought it was really funny and kind of interesting.”
Yeah, and I was watching it unfold at the time, but I didn't really think much of it. But when you really think about the human side of it, anyone can relate to it because it's like, “What the hell, he was gonna die, and he's come back, and he's being booed.”
“(Laughs) He's like, “I'm back,” and they're like, “Go away!” It's crazy, man.”
As real as it gets. #WWEEvil https://t.co/b4dNr2T8pf
— Roman Reigns (@WWERomanReigns) March 10, 2022
The pop culture element is clearly a big part of this series, and you have some really interesting interviewees to showcase that – Dr. Phil, Snoop Dogg, and Jason Blum from Blumhouse Productions to discuss the horror elements. It's one of the things that makes this so different, but in the past, documentaries, WWE's included, can get celebrity names just for the sake of it, even if they don't add to the story…
“This was something I was pretty bull-headed on when it came down to why we were interviewing some people. Because that's not just WWE, that's every network in the history of networks – it's like, “We need to boost the IP.” In my brain, I'm like, unless they are a character that has something to do with this, they cannot be in this. And so we kind of kept coming back to, “but why?”
“You mentioned Corey Taylor. We got Corey Taylor in it because he wears a mask as Slipknot – that makes sense. So let's go down a list of people who are WWE fans or who do we think fit in this timeline. You know, if somebody's got the “Ric Flair Drip,” then cool, they've qualified. But let's go through this thing and not just throw Mario Lopez in there or whoever unless they're going to say something from their personal experience or they have some personal connection. They can't just be a fan because you only have so much time to give legitimacy to something, and when a random pop person pops in there, and if they don't say something intelligent, I would rather just have a journalist say something that I can use rather than Justine Bieber hopping in and saying something just to have Bieb's be like, “Yeah, I love wrestling.” Thanks a lot for the contribution Bieb's.
Had a blast interviewing these two legends for #WWEEvil #BrothersOfDestruction @slipknot @jason_blum pic.twitter.com/p4MimoKBqf
— Micah Brown (@MicahBrownFilm) March 30, 2022
“As a filmmaker, you want to make sure that everybody fits and they're giving something meaningful. Now, Dr. Phil was a little bit of a struggle for me to figure out how that would optically look to have Dr. Phil pop in. But what I will say about it is, we wanted a psychologist, we wanted somebody that could come in and give a deeper meaning to what could be happening. Even though I was on the fence with him because I thought that as soon as you saw it, you would be like, [disappointed look] “Dr. Phil,” and there is a certain brand that Dr. Phil has. What Dr. Phil actually said kind of blew me away because I was like, Dr. Phil's, not that he's not good on camera, but what he's actually saying helps the show. Now, if you can get over the fact that it's Dr. Phil, that's kind of for people to figure out. But when we got back and started putting it together, I was like, what he's saying, if I'm letting down all my personal feelings, what he says is actually pretty damn good. So I was happy about that, and that was enough of a reason for me to be like, ‘This makes sense. Sounds good.'”
One of the things that those interviews do is make Evil more accessible to a wider audience. Wrestling's historically been the gross stepchild of Hollywood and other forms of entertainment. That's changed to an extent thanks to guys like Rock and Cena. Where do you think wrestling's acceptance in the mainstream stands now coming off this project?
“Obviously, I can't speak for millions of fans around the country, but from my own perspective, my own perspective has changed a lot. One, I think that I would say going into this, I was a little – I wouldn't say from a disrespectful mindset – but I think I did think of it like, “Okay, a lot of middle-schoolers probably watch this,” and that's probably the way I looked at it. And I didn't fully understand what the art form was. I understood what I liked about it, which was huge athletic people doing stunts. That's what resonated with me. I was like, “Whoa, I can appreciate that, that's really hard on your body.” I didn't really get into the storylines. I didn't really get into all of the theatrical elements of it, just because I liked watching someone like Rey Mysterio or Goldberg do their stuff. I was like, this is freaking impressive that you can fall off the top of a cage and do that. I appreciated that.
“I think coming away from it, especially the element of the art form of how these things work, where they are listening to the crowd and the struggle between staying a babyface or turning heel. And playing your role and having to entertain the crowd in real time, I felt like that gave me a whole new appreciation for the art form, and I just never understood how it worked, and I never understood that was an actual thing that they did. So playing off of that and knowing your character so well and playing to the crowd, that is, in some ways, this is a melting pot of the greatest art form in the world because you have a connection with modern pop culture, the times, music, movies – all of these things in this brutal ballet – put into the wrestling ring. And they are trying to figure it out and entertain you while maintaining the character that they've built in a certain type of way, and there's something beautiful in that. So I would say, when I look at it from that perspective, it's like, “Whoa, that's amazing, and I get why people are so committed to it and are such big fans of it.” It's entertainment from all angles put into one place.
“So I can say I became a fan over the course of doing this, and any kind of cynical thoughts that I had or any misconceptions were broken down once I understood the world more, and hopefully, this series will do the same for other people that are coming in and trying to see what this thing is about.”
That's fascinating to hear, and I think it's always better to hear it from someone who wasn't a fan coming in. I told you my favourite moment of the series, which was Randy's transformation. But what would you say your favourite moment has been working on this project?
“Oh, man, I think one of my favourite moments – this is such a random one – it's kind of the Vince Russo and Eric Bischoff back and forth. Just because I love the part where he [Eric] says, “Don't edit that out, I dare you.” That, to me, was just so authentic and real. I felt like that was one of my favourite parts that I'm glad we were able to keep in because I think you were able to get some real emotion. I love in Miz, when he loses it, that moment that you mentioned where he really breaks down, and I love the build-up to that. I think that's super powerful, man, because it's authentic, it's real, it's heart-breaking in a lot of ways, and I think those two moments – that's what you want.
One of my favorite bad guys and #WrestleMania opponents. He reminds everyone all the time! #WWEEvil https://t.co/FGtt6PfEhU
— John Cena (@JohnCena) March 25, 2022
“You get into these cycles where people have done so many interviews that they tell the same stories over and over. They say it the same way over and over, and you're kind of like, “Yeah, I get it.” So any time when you get a moment where you're like, that was just for me, that's where we've got it, man. So those are some moments, I think when we were talking about those things, we were able to pull out some stuff that was just for us.”
Could you nail down who your favourite wrestler to interview was?
“Mark Calaway was really fun because I think I watched him for so long, and I felt like when I was talking to him, it was like he had this secret for years that he had been wanting to say, and then he was finally able to talk about it. And I think that that was really cool. I had a great time interviewing Hulk [Hogan]. He was super down to earth, and obviously, he's such a legend. Being able to follow up with questions and seeing him debating whether he wanted to go there or not, like being able to ask him specifically about creative control and navigate that stuff, and see how he thought about it, I thought that was fun. But everybody was super cool, and they were all different in a lot of different ways. But I'd say The Undertaker was the coolest for me because of the secret element to it.”
Finally, are we going to see another wrestling-related project from you, whether that's season 2 of this or something else?
“You know, I'm not sure. I know that it's done really well. I know that John [Cena] has a desire to do numerous seasons, so I'm sure that if they do it, that he will – I would assume they will probably do something. I'm not sure. I'm not on the network side of those negations and all that stuff. You know, this kind of thing, everybody's schedules have to align. Who knows if I'll even be involved in the other ones, just because of the other things I've got going on. But I hope they do. I think that there are a lot more stories to tell. I think that there's definitely room for the good side of this series too, and I think that I've heard in other interviews that John's expressed a desire to do something like that. And hopefully, they do, man, because I think this will just continue to bring people into the WWE Universe that haven't been, and I think whenever you have a chance to introduce people to something that's really special, I think that it's a unifying thing and hopefully they will.”
You can find out more and keep track of Micah Brown's work on his website by clicking here.
All videos and images are courtesy of WWE and Peacock.
